Parler hacked before it went offline

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1 week 20 hours ago - 1 week 20 hours ago #11 by rolandh
Thank you for the article! As with most things, there are a wide variety of opinions on the matter:

reason.com/volokh/2021/01/09/the-case-for-a-swift-impeachment/

Perhaps, Mitt Romney is correct in that we'll all just to need hold out breath and hope there is no need to remember the Alamo in another context or any other shenanigans.

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1 week 20 hours ago - 1 week 20 hours ago #12 by golan
Trump supporters are intent on a coup and civil war.

Head of Homeland Security has resigned? Why?

Multiple Capitol Police Officers have been suspended and under investigation. Also there has been an arrest.

Republicans cannot be trusted.



 

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1 week 20 hours ago - 1 week 20 hours ago #13 by rolandh
www.cnbc.com/2021/01/11/fbi-memo-warns-law-enforcement-across-us-of-possible-armed-protests-at-50-state-capitols.html

Quoting in part:

While the memo discusses possible threats discussed by online actors for Jan. 16 through the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden on Jan. 20, it doesn’t mean that law enforcement agencies expect violent mass protests or confrontations in every state.

For instance, a spokesperson for the FBI in Boston says, “At this point in time, the FBI Boston Division is not in possession of any intelligence indicating any planned, armed protests at the four state capitals in our area of responsibility. (ME, MA, NH, and RI) from January 17-20, 2021.”

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1 week 20 hours ago - 1 week 20 hours ago #14 by rolandh
thehill.com/policy/finance/533715-1-member-of-law-enforcement-arrested-2-suspended-over-conduct-during-capitol

Ryan, who chairs the funding committee that oversees the Capitol Police, said there was no evidence of a broader "inside job," or indications that members of the force had cooperated with or organized with the insurrectionists.


Ryan is Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan. I presume he can be trusted.

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1 week 20 hours ago - 1 week 19 hours ago #15 by golan
There is a lot to be investigated still and a lot of facts that point to a conspiracy.

If you want to cherry pick to minimize domestic terrorism, then that's your choice. It's what Republicans and right wing media are doing as well.

All the evidence I've seen shows that Trump is one of the worst criminals in the history of the US and that Trumpism is evil.

And that he organizes like minded criminals in the pursuit of power and money. The list of bad actors is huge.

History will judge it's supporters as history judged Hitler's supporters.

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1 week 20 hours ago #16 by als

rolandh wrote: When I say the constitutional process of impeachment is a political one rather than a legal one, I mean the due process standards of legal prosecution for an alleged criminal offense need not apply. President Trump if impeached, convicted and removed from office wouldn't be denied life, liberty or property as a result. Obviously, neither the House of Representstives or its leadership control the entire process, however, I do believe leadership would be more credible had the House been called into immediate session to consider the matter. If something or someone is an iminent threat, one deals with it immediately not at some later date. It's reasonable but insufficient to ask the executive branch to police itself via the 25th amendment.

When I say the 25th Amendment is a constitutionally dubious means of addressing the situation, I'm referring to the language, which says the President may be sidelined (he wouldn't actually be removed from office) if unable to discharge the duties of the office. Unable is not the same thing as unfit or unwilling. I'm certainly no constitutional scholar, so will be reading this book at my earliest convenience:

www.barnesandnoble.com/w/unable-brian-c-kalt/1132025274?ean=9780190083212.

I'll risk making myself unpopular and further opine President Trump's address to the crowd prior to the assault on the Capitol does not rise to the level of criminal responsibility. The standard for incitement and/or sedition as a criminal matter based on speech is incredibly high and rightfully so. The most widely cited case is Brandenburg v. Ohio:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio.

Bringing this back to Parler and other social media platforms, generally, the state does not punish folks for speech and, again, rightfully so. Typically one is punished for actions that are crimes not words alone. To the extent one follows up with actions the words one posts on social media, those words would certainly be evidence of intent. Simply put, if I post that members of congress who objected to the certification of President-elect Biden's victory ought to be tarred and feathered and someone else does so, I'm not criminally responsible unless, perhaps, standing next to the barrel of tar and the sack of feathers (iminence). If I follow through on those words, I'm potentially criminally responsible for my actions.

I'll risk making myself unpopular and further opine President Trump's address to the crowd prior to the assault on the Capitol does not rise to the level of criminal responsibility. The standard for incitement and/or sedition as a criminal matter based on speech is incredibly high and rightfully so. The most widely cited case is Brandenburg v. Ohio:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio .

We were talking about impeachment and the 25th amendament. Perhaps  aiding and abetting a federal crime    fits the definition of high crimes and midemeanors for impeachment and removal from office18 U.S. Code § 2 - Principals

prev  |  next
(a)
Whoever commits an offense against the  United States  or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.
(b)
Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the  United States , is punishable as a principal.
 

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1 week 20 hours ago #17 by rolandh
I already have stated I believe President Trump ought to be impeached, convicted and removed from office. I also expressed the opinion Trump's speech prior to the assault on the Capitol may not rise to criminal conduct based on prior Supreme Court precedent (Brandenberg v. Ohio). If there's evidence beyond a reasonable doubt of aiding and abetting beyond speech, a jury would no doubt convict.

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1 week 19 hours ago - 1 week 19 hours ago #18 by rolandh

golan wrote: There is a lot to be investigated still and a lot of facts that point to a conspiracy.

If you want to cherry pick to minimize domestic terrorism, then that's your choice. It's what Republicans and right wing media are doing as well.

All the evidence I've seen shows that Trump is one of the worst criminals in the history of the US and that Trumpism is evil. History will judge it's supporters as history judged Hitler's supporters.

Indeed, much remains to be investigated and time will tell if the conspiracy you fear exists and, if so, how widespread it is.

Posting a CNN graphic with no additional context is not cherry picking? I linked articles that provide context for the quotes. I am neither a Republican or a member of right wing media. Neither influences my opinions.

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1 week 19 hours ago #19 by golan

rolandh wrote:

Posting a CNN graphic with no additional context is not cherry picking?

A CNN graphic that summarizes an INTERNAL FBI bulletin? A bulletin that summarizes what their intelligence is?

That's cherry picking? What am I missing? Some of those planning attacks or making threats are nice to their cats and dogs?

What would you like me to do? Post up links to the original internal FBI documents?

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1 week 19 hours ago - 1 week 17 hours ago #20 by rolandh
The CNBC article I quoted in part references that same FBI bulletin though not quite as dramatically as CNN. If I'm cherry picking then so are you.

The Hill article addresses your point regarding law enforcement arrests. Congressman Ryan chairs the House committee that oversees funding for the Capitol Police. He not I is quoted as saying there is no current evidence the arrests are indicative of a wider inside conspiracy.

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